Welcome back, friends, to only our brand new-ish, unique podcast… Remote Property Flipping.
In today’s episode, we will be talking about researching your market – specifically in the USA & the UK. You need to be laser-focused on where you’re targeting and know where the best areas to target are. And we’ll go through some specific criteria on how to target and why it’s so important.
As you see from the title of this episode – this is just Part 1 – we’re gonna follow this up with a terrific video episode and show you some of the stuff we talk about today in more detail – with visuals.
For now, let’s get to Part 1…
Listen and enjoy:
- The surprising number of deals a month you’ll need to do to live the “Rock Star Lifestyle”
- Who your target customers are depends on the kinds of deals you’re doing
- Tom tells us the one thing an investor friend of his doing that brings in 10K/month on average
- How to find out where the demand is and the best areas to target
- Tom’s specific criteria for props he’s interested in
Mentioned in this episode:
- How to apply for 1-on-1 coaching from Joe and Tom and find their free books: RemotePropertyFlipping.com
- Property Bee
Intro: This is the Remote Property Flipping Podcast with your hosts, Joe McCall and Tom Wade, two of the world’s most sought after experts on remote property flipping and virtual wholesaling. So if you are interested in learning how to make an incredible living flipping properties from a beach in Spain or a café in Prague with only a laptop and a mobile phone without using any of your own money or credit, then you are in the right place. For more information on how you can personally work with either Joe or Tom, and how you can create your own location independent business through remote property flipping, make sure you go to RemotePropertyFlipping.com right now.
Joe: Hello again everybody. Welcome to the remote property flipping podcast. I’m Joe McCall and I’m with Tom Wade. Tom, how are you sir?
Tom: Hey, Joe. Doing great, man. Doing really, really well.
Joe: Awesome. So guys, in the last episode, we talked about creating a marketing plan. Before that, we talked about kind of an introduction of what sourcing is, what is wholesaling, what are lease options. From here on out, we’re kind of going to be diving deep into the details of how we actually do deals. And specifically, Tom, I’m going to be interviewing you and asking kind of like how do you do it in the UK, because a lot of our listeners I think are going to be listening from the UK, at least we hope so.
Tom: You got it, yes. We will make them to know. They need to know this.
Joe: Yes. So it’s really important. But first guys, we want to tell you all to go to RemotePropertyFlipping.com to get the show notes, to get the transcriptions, transcriptions of these podcasts, to get more information. We’ve got some free books on there. Tom, you have a great book called what? The 15…
Tom: 15 Rules of Remote Property Flipping. Basically just… All the basics, the core fundamentals for them to go out there and start flipping properties remotely today.
Joe: Yes, it’s not that hard. You have to work… You have to know how to work smart and not hard. And that’s kind of a point of this podcast. It’s to show people… Listen, you can make a great income in this business while traveling or living anywhere in the world. It’s not that hard to do. And you don’t need to be… You don’t need to have a million dollar business to enjoy life, right? Like, you could be travelling around in Spain, or in Prague, or in Mexico with just doing one or two deals a month.
Tom: Yeah. Well, Joe, my brother… Actually, he lives in Thailand, and he lives very well on £2,000 a month. It’s very well…
Tom: …Very, very well. More than enough to cover expenses and have that leisure and time as well so it really… And to some people, it’s just an extra income on the side of their job. They might like their job.
Tom: And they just want to have another side income, but then they’ve got the freedom of choice to be able to say, “Look, I want to go full-time and do three or four deals a month, and then scale.” So that’s a great thing about this business is you can work around your job as well. Or you can go into a full-time when you have that, when you start those deals.
Joe: One of the things I’d like to do when I do a webinar is I’d like to show… break down the numbers and kind of show how you can have a really cool lifestyle and just do a few deals a month to get there. So I walk through this exercise of showing them… Look, the average executive salary in the United States let’s just say is $100,000 a year.
And let’s just bump that up a little bit to $120,000 a year so that’s $10,000 a month, okay? And then we look at a really nice house that you could… It’s not a mansion; it’s not a shack. Like in the United States, $500,000 can get you a really, really nice house, right? And I know in Southern California or in the heart of London that can get you a little shack, right?
Tom: Yeah, it’s just about to get you a shed.
Joe: Yeah, and maybe a little garden house like they have here in Prague that you see out in the country.
Joe: But, it can get you a real nice place in most parts of the country, most parts of the world actually. What will the mortgage payment on that be? Maybe a couple thousand dollars a month. All right. Let’s say $2,500 a month. And then you add on some cool things, like you want some nice cars, let’s say, right?
So let’s just say you can get one or two nice cars. And if you wanted to finance it, that’s a $1,000 bucks a month, $1,000 a month. And people in the US obviously, we get nicer bigger cars because we are gluttons, and we like big fast cars that are gas-guzzlers, and we like to ruin the environment. I’m just kidding. But Americans, they like big cars. But let’s just say you’re getting a small sports car or…
Tom: A BMW.
Joe: A BMW, all right. And so your payments are going to be like a $1,000 a month for that. And let’s just say you take a vacation, a nice vacation every three months, okay? So every quarter, you take a cruise, or you go rent a cabin up in the mountains, or you go skiing or you go just to hang out on an all-inclusive resort on the beach, okay? But you take three or four nice vacations and you total all of that up. And it’s really… It’s just about; let’s just say $17,000 or $18,000 a month to live a rock star lifestyle.
Joe: You don’t have to be making a million dollars a year…
Tom: You don’t.
Joe: …To live very comfortably. And in fact, I would argue; you could probably live really, really comfortably on half of that if you don’t have any debt.
Tom: Yeah. Well, a great book is the 4-Hour Workweek.
Tom: How it infers… I love that book… how it breaks it down, how he breaks down living a rock star lifestyle, and breaking it down to what you actually need and getting rid of all of the liabilities that you don’t actually need…
Tom: …And being able to travel more and do more fun things. And I always say, to be able to see that restaurant, you will pass and say to your family or whoever your friends or if you’ve got a spouse and so forth… Just say, “Look, we can go there tonight and not have to worry about how expensive it is.”
Tom: …Which is just awesome, which is something that I always wanted. And this business gave me that opportunity to do that, so I just love what it can do for you…
Tom: …And also the people who you love as well. There’s just no business like that, I think.
Joe: We went to… Just yesterday, Tom, I was getting some pictures taken of myself for this podcast, for the website, right? And I hired a photographer that goes to our church here in Prague, and we were around the Charles Bridge here in Prague, and there’s this really nice fancy restaurant right and underneath the bridge along the river. And we just went there, and we just said, “Let’s just go there and get some pictures taken.”
Joe: So we got some really cool pictures. But while over there, we were like, “Let’s just order some dinner.” And I had my kids with us, and my wife came later and met us there, but we had a big fancy dinner for… There was what? Seven of us there…
Joe: …And it was just incredible. My whole point is this, guys. You can live very, very comfortably while you’re travelling in the world, whether you have kids like I do… I have four kids or whether you’re single like Tom is, you can literally travel anywhere in the world and have a business that pays for your lifestyle. And you can have fun now and travel now, and you don’t have to wait till you’re 65, 70 years old when you finally get to quote, unquote retire…
Joe: And then to have fun and go travel around the world.
Tom: But most people don’t, because most people retire on less than a thousand. I heard some crazy statistics. Some people retire on less than say $2,000 in their bank account.
Joe: Yeah, I know.
Tom: The majority of people… And that is the majority of people out there because they’re waiting for that, their escape from reality when if they just take ownership where they are now and create a business and this is for creative property investing in real estate…
Tom: …And doing it remotely which makes it a lot more fun and a lot more smarter, because you can target areas which you couldn’t target before. Because if you’re in London or you’re in England right now, you’re sitting in London and you want to do lease options, and it’s a lot, lot harder to lease options in. You’re staying in the middle and taking them on in London because the market is rising so fast. But up in the Northeast, it’s rising very, very in small increments. So there’s still negative equity or people that have little equity.
Tom: So if you can’t do it remotely and it didn’t exist, and you had to meet the sellers, it’s impossible to do that. It’s literally impossible. You couldn’t drive that amount to see all these sellers. So this is practical. It’s practical as well and it’s not just about… It gives you two things. One is the freedom to work from home or wherever you want. The second it gives you the freedom to target more areas. And I guess that comes onto your episode, doesn’t it, Joe?
Tom: And what are we talking about today?
Joe: Oh, yes. So Tom, we’re going to talk about researching your market. And I think you said it really well there, because you may be living in a very expensive market or a highly appreciating market where it’s harder to find deals. And you need to know… you need to be laser-focused on where you’re actually targeting, right? And it’s good to know. It’s important to know where the best areas to target are, because if you have a nice property in a good area, they’re so much easier to sell, aren’t they?
Tom: Yeah. Oh yeah, especially when it comes to lease options with tenant buyers. If I’m finding a tenant buyer and there’s a nice property in a nice area, it will sell. I know it will sell.
Tom: And I have many clients like that that do this. And even when the rent… I had one client. I’ll make her anonymous because she didn’t want to me to talk or to give the testimonial up. But there’s one client… I don’t know why because that’s such a fantastic deal. I love talking about this stuff.
Joe: Yeah, yeah.
Tom: And it was right… It’s at Bishop Auk land. The mortgage on the house was £800, but the rent was only £575 in the area. And I said to her, I said, “Look, let’s find someone that will pay because it’s such a nice house, a four bedroom house. They’ve got three bedrooms. One is their family office. Really, really nice big house in Bishop Auk land. It’s really nice. And I said, “Advertise it for £800.” She found a tenant buyer that would pay £800…
Tom: …That would pay £225 above market rent for the house.
Tom: One, most people say this is a deal that’s not doable. And she sold it. She’s done wholesaling lease options. She sold to the tenant buyer for the sellers. And she took her £5 grand, £5,000 fee on a dead deal. And that’s just… For example, that’s just to say, coming back to what you said, Joe…
Tom: If it’s a nice a house in a good area, a good part of town, it will sell. It always sells. If you’re near enough… I can’t say guaranteed, but you’re 99% there. You just got to know marketing to do. As long as you work that checklist…
Tom: …You can sell that.
Joe: Well, I was thinking too because I was reading a really, really good book I would recommend to everybody. And it translates well into whatever culture you’re in wherever you’re in the world. It’s called The Pumpkin Plan. And it’s about business and focusing on your core strengths. But one of the big important questions they ask in that book is, “Who are your customers?” Right? And in real estate, in property investing, Tom, who is your customer? Does that depend on the type of deals that you’re doing? Who are your customers? Your buyers or your sellers?
Tom: Great question. Well, my customer is definitely not my sellers. The seller is just part A and they carry a bridge.
Tom: The customers are investors…
Tom: …And tenant buyers.
Tom: The people that buy… So if it’s a lease option, I’m putting a tenant buyer in. The tenant buyer is coming up with the option fee. They’re getting “started money” I call it, and that’s our fee. If an investor, we’re packaging the deal and sourcing it. We’re going to get our fee from in a sandwich, in the middle of a flipping on the deal and that’s where we get our fees. Or if we’re flipping onto retail and controlling under an option of flipping that onto retail instead, same thing. It’s the retail buyers. So it’s always the buyers.
Tom: And that’s where the focus on getting buyers or knowing where buyers are actually buying. Where are they buying properties? And how do you research this and so forth? And this is crucial, because then when you market for sellers simultaneously…
Tom: …You’ve got the buyer as well. Because it makes sense, because they’re the people that have the deals. And the really exciting thing is… This could be for our episode… It’s where you can get contact lots of other investors there, getting a lot of deals and struggling to sell them. And they just pass someone to you, and you’ve got the active buyers list.
Tom: And you sell them for them so you’re just leveraging. So you’re not… Actually, I’ve done this so much times, Joe, and I still do this all of the time. I sell other people’s deals with one click of an e-mail.
Tom: And I’m making £5, £6 grand a month just selling, just pressing and doing e-mails, because I’ve built up the buyers list over time. I know one guy, David. He is a good friend of mine. He does this remotely as well. He’s actually up in… Where is he based again? Lake… I can’t even remember it. Lake District, I believe he is. I think he’s up in the Lake District, a beautiful place of England. Joe, I’m not sure if you’ve heard of it.
Tom: But it’s an amazing place, a beautiful countryside and stuff like that. But anyway, he’s right out in the middle of nowhere, and he’s doing this remotely. But he’s selling other people’s deals on a consistent basis.
Tom: And he’s making a roundup of about £10 grand a month.
Tom: And £120,000 grand a year selling other… Majority of the deals he sells are just other people’s referrals.
Joe: That’s phenomenal. I know a guy as well who… all he does is whenever he’s hungry and he wants to make some money, he goes…
Tom: Ha-ha! That’s fantastic.
Joe: He has a list of investors in his market in the United States. And he calls through every single investor and says, “Hey, how are you doing?” He’s all about the phone and building relationships so everybody knows who he is. He says, “Hey, do you have any properties that you’re trying to sell?” And if they say, “Yeah…” I know he gets to write down that information… He says, “Okay, are you looking to buy any properties right now?” He finds out if they… Maybe they don’t have a property that they’re trying to sell but they’re looking to buy. So he asks them, “Where are you looking to buy properties out right now?”
Tom: Uh-huh, yeah.
Joe: And he asks everybody on that list, “Do you have a property that you’re trying to sell? Or “Do you have a property that you’re trying to buy?” All right? And sure enough, every single time, as he goes through that list and calls everybody, he finds a match. And he puts them together, and he makes some money in the middle. It’s powerful.
Tom: That’s amazing. But what he’s doing there as well, Joe, is he’s speaking to people.
Joe: Uh-huh. Yeah.
Tom: He’s going out and he’s speaking to people. And the majority of people that I see that don’t get results in the business; they’re just not speaking to enough people because you need to speak to people. You need to be communicating, building rapport. And I think… I had Tim Ferriss say this. I’m a big fan of Tim Ferriss and his podcast as well. And he speaks about, “Most business leaders are good communicators.” You have to be very, very good at communicating. And if you’re not, then get back to your communicating.
Because once you can do this and you can pick up the phone from anywhere, I could pick up the phone today. I’m in Barcelona right now for a few more days before I go to Hawaii. As long as I have some leads in my funnel, I could pick that phone up and I can transact deals. I can transact deals. It might take me 20 calls to do it, or it might take me 5 calls or 40 calls. It doesn’t matter, because I know as long as I have got the leads there, I can do it, and then I can sell that deal onto my buyers. And guys, you can start doing this very, very fast. So I know we’re going off on a tangent, Joe. We’re going off on a tangent.
Joe: It’s important because you need to know your market. You need to know your market. You need to know who your customers are, where your buyers are looking for properties, right? So Tom, how do you…? In your market in England, how do you find out where the demand is? How do you do the research to know where your buyers are buying? What are the best areas to target?
Tom: Good question. Well, what I do… I’ll back up a little bit and I’ll start with, say lease options. So the first thing I do there with lease options in terms of buyers, I know that I first need to target the sellers that are going to be in the North. So in the Midlands upwards. And I know that… To me, what I first do is I do dummy ads, ghost ads.
Tom: So I start putting ghost ads outside. I do bandit signs around the areas. This is the offline marketing. But I also do like a local newspaper ad as well. And I’ll do up on adding Gumtree in the classified sites, and I’ll start building that up. But also, I do research. You do research on RightMove…
Tom: …And Zoopla and Mouseprice. And there’s an App on the Firefox browser. There’s an app called Property Bee. Property Bee works, and you can see all of the prices going up and down, and where people are buying and so forth. Property Bee is pretty. It’s quite a good little app that goes in your browser, Firefox browser. It’s really awesome. But then I do that.
But also, I just do research, market research. I like heatmaps, so you can see that on… Zoopla have that, and you also have Right Move, Mouseprice. And there’s one another one as well. I can’t quite remember now. It might be Property Ladder as well that does it. But you can go in there and you can see where property prices are shooting up. And this is an interesting fact. It’s that 60% last year, Joe, of houses bought was in cash in the UK.
Tom: 60% was bought in cash. And I think that’s similar to US as well, isn’t it?
Joe: Not as high. But in some markets, yeah. It’s definitely more cash buying properties right now than just getting loans than ever before, yeah.
Tom: Yeah. So when we have tenant buyers. I do that. But also… So that’s what you can do and that’s what you have in your control. You can see where people are buying and you can see when property prices are going up. But also, there’s something called i-mail. On i-mail, you can actually get data. So I can go on i-mail and I contact this company, and they can actually give me statistics and data of cash buyers that recently bought in the last six months.
Joe: So I can get, transact the data and I know I would have taken years to be able to find this data, because in the US it’s everywhere. But in the UK, it’s new. It’s so new that I have to reinvent things and really trying to innovate things to find this data. But anyway, it’s out there because it’s all recorded, so I found it.
Tom: And you can find people that are buying cash. And who’s buying cash? It’s investors and did this person buy more than once? Well, we know they’re an investor and they’re buying. And then, when we’ve got that, well I can see… They can give me some records on who’s buying where, and for example… First thing, as a seller’s though, so if it’s lease options and I would sell it to investors, that’s not going to be recorded because it’s not cash.
So I want to try and convert these cash buyers and landlords to lease options. I want to explain lease options to them and say, “Look, Joe. You can build a portfolio without using any of your money. You don’t have to get a mortgage loan. This is a deal. It’s a package deal and so forth,” and I want to start building that list. But if I’m selling onto a cash buyer, if it’s below market value package deal…
Tom: …Then it’s the same thing. So let’s say for example, in Manchester, someone is buying regularly; someone is buying two and three beds, semi-detached houses and terrace houses. I know where to source them. I know I’m going to target two and three bed semi-detached houses. And that’s normally what I go for, Joe, to be honest. It’s normally houses between £50 grand…
Tom: …And say £200 grand. But I don’t always sell to cash buyers. Sometimes I sell to landlords that have a mortgage ready in place applied to that mortgage. And my propriety, my broker will go in there, qualify them quick, set it up for them, and then move it very quickly. If they qualify for mortgage, then they can; they get the loan.
Tom: …And so for forth. That’s another option I have. But normally, my criteria and type of house is two to three bed, semi-detached houses and also terrace houses as well. Like, that’s my criteria I go for. So I go into EyeMail. It’s a paid service. I have to pay for the data of cash buyers and market to them and say, “Look, we’ve got properties in this area.” And most of them, most investors or cash buyers are buying terrace. They’re not buying detached. They’re not buying flats mainly. They’re mainly buying two and three bedroom houses, semi-detached or terrace.
Joe: Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s really important to understand because it makes it… Again, the whole point of this and that is why it’s one of the first things we’re talking about in the series of podcasts. The whole point is just to understand where the demand is, because it makes it so much easier to sell the properties if you’re… We’re only working in areas where there’s a high demand. Because once you get a property under a contract, it’s a lot easier to sell that because you have such a huge pool of buyers that are interested.
Tom: Yeah, I can tell you where the high demand is. And the high demand is you have… It depends on what properties. Look, London… There’s massive demand in London. It’s unbelievable. London is just… If you find a house, it’s slightly being or be at sold. One of my clients, he was telling me a story about when he bought a house… It was his own house. It was an apartment he was living in. He was in Angel in London. And anyway, it was in the crash in a way. I think I mentioned this before. But he still made… In the next year when he sold it, I think he put a little bit of work into it but not much. But in the crash, he still made £60 grand.
Tom: £60,000 in the crash and within a year. And that’s what London is like. London is phenomenal in terms of going up in value. And so if you get a house there, you’ve got many overseas landlords and overseas buyers. The Chinese and so forth wanting to buy these properties up. Or you’ve got local investors. If you’ve just bought a house and you get in with agents, the estate agents here…
Tom: …And you just start sourcing properties, and you’ve got buyers list of serious people that want to start buying maybe only 10% market value or 5% because it’s very, very rare, very rare to get discounted properties in terms of the 20%-25% off in London. It’s very rare. It’s almost… It’s possible but you don’t need to go down that route. You just need to change your approach slightly and find the buyers that are buying.
Tom: So just go to EyeMail, request some cash buyer data from EyeMail for people that recently bought for cash in London and also start putting dummy ads out. Start putting dummy ads out on Gumtree, on the local newspaper. Go to the agents and say, “If you’ve got any buyers, I’ve got these deals.” Would they be interested in buying at this type of price? And start building that buyers list. Then you can find out… When you speak to your buyers, you can say, “Well, what are you after?” “Two or three beds, four beds. I’m after this type of property or apartment.” Then you are so strict on your marketing and you spend less…
Tom: …Because you’re very direct and you get a much better response. But I’ll always find that the buyers flock on my market. So there’s London that’s down South. But also up North, Manchester is a very growing market. Liverpool is an appreciating market, and a lot of investors, buyers and landlords buy in there. And you have Birmingham and so forth. They’re bigger cities that are very good.
Joe: Yeah. I think, Tom, you know what? I have an idea here. I think we should do two parts. Let’s do part two and maybe a part three on this topic and let’s make it a video podcast where we can actually go back behind the scenes and show people how to use some of these websites, because you mentioned some really good resources there, some add-ons to a browser, some websites, some paid sources that you can get information on. And maybe we could do a video podcast and show people just real quickly what this stuff is and how we do it ourselves. Would that be cool?
Tom: Yeah, that sounds great. That’s awesome.
Joe: Okay, listen guys. Go to RemotePropertyFlipping.com if you’re interested working with Tom one-on-one. If you’re interested in talking to me about working on one-on-one and flipping deals in the United States, go to RemotePropertyFlipping.com. We got a lot of really cool valuable bonuses there. And stay tuned for the next podcast as we release it because we’re actually going to make it a video podcast, and we’re just going to show people real quickly how we do everything we just talked about through video. And I think you really, really going to like it. So hey, thanks, Tom. I hope you have a good rest of the day.
Tom: Cool, man. Take care. See you, guys.
Joe: See you.
Outro: Thanks for tuning in to the Remote Property Flipping Podcast. If you like the show please visit iTunes, subscribe and leave a review, we would really appreciate it. Visit our website at RemotePropertyFlipping.com for detailed show notes, and transcriptions, free books, videos, resources and more. And finally if you would like to learn more about how you can possibly work with either Tom or Joe, and create your own remote property flipping business, visit RemotePropertyFlipping.com.
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